--- title: Performance, a Podcast, and Neurodivergence description: The post in which I discuss the nature of performance, a podcast, play, and other such posh p words image: https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/Performance-a-Podcast-and-Neurodivergence-1.png --- ![burger-icon](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/icons/burger-icon.svg) [![Kourosh Dini - Homepage](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/logos/kourosh-logo.svg)](https://www.kouroshdini.com) ![close-icon](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/icons/close-icon.svg) - [Blog page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/the-dini-group-ltd-blog) - [Podcast page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/podcast) - [Music page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/music) - [Courses & Books page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/courses-and-books) - [Psychoanalysis page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/psy) - [About page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/about) - [Contact page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/contact) - [Waves of Focus page](https://www.kouroshdini.com/waves-of-focus) ![Search](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/icons/search-icon.svg) [![at-icon](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/icons/at-icon.svg)](mailto:kmdini@gmail.com) [Return to Blog](https://www.kouroshdini.com/the-dini-group-ltd-blog) # Performance, a Podcast, and Neurodivergence Jan 10, 2025 ![](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/Performance-a-Podcast-and-Neurodivergence-1.png) Ah, the performance. That most strenuous and binding of work types, in which we stand in front of an audience. Not solely the realm of sing, dance, and play, we may just as well speak in somber tones, serious, clear, and hopefully steadfast in our convictions of the world and ourselves. And then we record it. *C'est le podcast.* I recently had the pleasure of speaking with Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Neff from [@divergentconversations](https://www.youtube.com/@divergentconversations), on their podcast, Divergent Conversations. [**Listen to the podcast episode here**](https://www.divergentpod.com/87) or [on Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/divergent-conversations/id1662009631). Together, they clearly care about the communities they serve and speak with experience as "they highlight the raw, authentic, lived experiences of the neurodivergent community, amplify the voices of neurodivergent advocates and individuals, and offer clinical guidance and support." During our talk, I think I most clearly described the Waves of Focus' central concepts better than I've been able to before. \[^1\] However, during the interview, I felt that I'd stumbled. The perfectionist in me cried out afterward and said, "Wait! I said something wrong!" Specifically, I remembered Megan asking me about how DW Winnicott, a psychoanalyst from the mid-20th century, might characterize play. Internally, I froze. While I've read, studied, and done the work I suddenly wondered, what would he say? How can I not clearly articulate this? My memory of the moment seems to have been warped by the pressures of perfectionism. Going back into the transcript, I think I answered just fine. But I realized my stumble. I interpreted the question as having to answer for someone else's experience or understanding, in this case Winnicott's. Meanwhile, describing someone else's experience is an impossibility. Some may believe that my clinical work as a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst would include being able to "read others minds," perhaps even knowing them better than they might themselves. This is patently untrue. Quite regularly, I do consider ideas, motivations, and experiences of others. But without actually asking, "does this idea resonate?" I'm in trouble. Because once I get an answer, I discover that I'm almost always wrong. However, that process of discovery is almost always useful, a co-construction offering new paths of unconsidered growth and decision. Similarly, what I understand of play is a blend of what Winnicott and others have said along with what I've come to experience and believe. Interestingly, this brings us to the term "neurodivergence" itself, a word having come into favor in the last few years, but has truly been around for several decades. Like many terms, it is born as a singular concept, and then blooms into meaning in various contexts. \[^2\] Fundamentally, I believe it means that our brains are different, both by way of nature and nurture. Certainly, we can find gatherings and clusterings of types, such as ADHD, autism, anxiety, and more. But both within and outside of such clusters, much can be made of how we individually have learned to manage our similarities and differences as we discover and manage them throughout our lives. In the episode, I get into how the Waves of Focus methodology helps those with ADHD and other wandering minds. I get into the connections between creativity, agency, and play, and I describe we can support ourselves in our tasks and decisions. But even so, all I can do is propose realities as I've understood them. Divergent or not, it is still up to the individual to point out where their own experience differs, co-constructing ideas to hopefully find growth. \- Kourosh PS - If you do [check out the episode](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/divergent-conversations/id1662009631), (and I encourage you to do so), please consider commenting, liking, and subscribing to help spread the word. PPS \[^1\]: The Waves of Focus is my course on helping creatives, those with ADHD, and the like to guide and even empower their attention and do so without force, deadlines, or depending on others. PPPS \[^2\]: As another example, I often wonder just how different the original meaning of "ego" is different from "executive function skills." ![Divider](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/separator.svg) Share this article ## Recent Articles [![Is the Medication Working?](https://www.kouroshdini.com/hubfs/S01E77%20-%20Is%20the%20Medication%20Working-blog.jpg)](https://www.kouroshdini.com/the-dini-group-ltd-blog/is-the-adhd-medication-working) #### [Is the Medication Working?](https://www.kouroshdini.com/the-dini-group-ltd-blog/is-the-adhd-medication-working) Oct 16, 2026 Hmm, I wonder if this medication's working. Maybe it is. 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