Note taking apps seem to be growing in popularity as of late. But not just for taking notes in the conventional sense.
They’ve grown to be useful for developing what are increasingly being called atomic notes. These are notes that are tiny in nature but, when linked together, they become a powerful database with which to explore thought and build ideas. It’s been called a SlipBox, Notebox, and Zettelkasten, likely among other monikers.
Certainly I’ve been quite keen on DEVONthink, as my recently released Taking Smart Notes with DEVONthink can attest.
But another one that is certainly worth exploring is Obsidian. I’ve been kicking its tires quite a bit, and it’s really quite neat. It provides a solid linking and back-linking system, and has quite a snazzy graphing mechanism, to boot.
Now, you may be worried, as is often the case in the world of productivity, about choosing what to use. Especially if you’ve invested considerable time into one program or the other. Fortunately, you can use both.
DEVONthink is the sort of app that plays well with others. It integrates a whole host of functions and then lets you use most any other app alongside it. For example, while you can create texts or edit PDFs in DEVONthink, you can also launch your favorite editors to work on them outside the application, while still keeping the advantages of them being within DEVONthink’s database.
DEVONthink has recently had a small but quite significant change in its WikiLinks preferences that accommodates this rather well for note-linking apps. Specifically, DEVONthink now allows for choosing both “Square Brackets” and “Names and Aliases” as WikiLink options, instead of only one or the other:
Until this change, I would consistently remain within DEVONthink specifically for the Names and Aliases option. I had tried, on a couple of occasions, to integrate DEVONthink with Obsidian, but found myself wanting. I just didn’t like the double brackets that Obsidian requires when creating a link. It’s just so neat to type and have those words auto-magically turn into links. I often discover having written about something without remembering having done so. And, I don’t like having double brackets appear in the middle of the body of text. And, I really like the workflows, the integration with all files types, not to mention the AI that DEVONthink has to offer. So I wouldn’t budge.
Now, however, because of the change to the preferences, I can have both. Here’s an example of a note in Obsidian, where I can see a graph of notes:
Meanwhile, I can still use DEVONthink to use the See Also and Classify Function to see connections to my notes, the actual PDF references as well, as well as enjoy the smooth experience that I have while working in DEVONthink:
You can see that the note shows links within the body of text, but I also use the bracketed links. The bracketed links have become a way to signify linking on a more meaningfully-near scheme, while the in-text links also function to help me discover softer links, ideas that are further off perhaps. These can really help me consider those interesting connections I might not have otherwise considered.
Set Up
In order to set this up, you only need to have both programs point to the same set of files. I’ve been using a Dropbox folder. However, I am debating on using iCloud instead.
In DEVONthink:
- Select Menu > File > Index Files and Folders
and point to your desired set of text files.
In Obsidian:
- Select “Open another vault” option in the lower left:
- Select “Open folder as vault”:
The system is not perfect. I’d like to be able to have a quick way to jump between either program from the vantage of a single note. Currently, I don’t have that. Instead, I have to individually find the note in the other app from wherever I am.
You can use the same concept to connect with other note-taking apps such as nvAlt or, I imagine, nvUltra which I’m super excited about giving a whirl once its out.
I continue to live mainly within DEVONthink for doing my work, but it’s nice to see the graphing that Obsidian includes as well explore its development.
Consider checking out Justin DiRose’s Obsidian videos with Effective Remote Work. He does a nice job of introducing the software.
There is so much to love about both Roam and Obsidian. Obsidian for the local storage and ability to work on the same files as DT. One advantage with Roam is that you can open the url inside of DT and create notes from there.
That sounds neat. I’m going to have to give that a shot. I haven’t been playing around with Roam.
Good article on linking both apps together.
Can you explain why a left bracket “[” in subheadings?
Sure – by adding the “[“, it removes the WikiLinking to other notes in the database and instead makes them link to the headings within the note itself. I should probably add an ending “]”.
Thanks. That makes sense now if add a “]”
So I tested it out and remember why I didn’t add the “]”- it seems to remove the title. Using both ends of the single brackets works fine as long as I’m not using it in a header, i.e. “#”, “##”, etc.
„I’d like to be able to have a quick way to jump between either program from the vantage of a single note. Currently, I don’t have that. Instead, I have to individually find the note in the other app from wherever I am.“ —Dunno if this helps, but have you tried the App „Hook“? https://hookproductivity.com/
Nevermind… just saw one of your replies about Hook, ha… awesome book about DT, by the way! That software still scares me a bit…
Hey Marc,
There’s a great set of scripts made by Ryan Murphy here – https://axle.design/devonlink-integrate-obsidian-and-devonthink that does exactly this jumping between programs.
Glad you like the book! It took me a good number of years before I really started to feel solid with it, but it’s been awesome now that I have. And I still feel like there’s a ton of untapped potential I can try to figure out.
Could you kindly share the above CSS file for DEVONthink markdown preview?
Hey Joe, the file was created by Olivier Spinnler based on a file created by Brett Terpstra. I’ve included it in the Taking Smart Notes with DEVONthink purchase. Spinnler is currently updating it, and I hope to add the update to the files later.
I want to thank you Kourosh for blazing the trail. Being new to this world of note taking and these apps, I bought your book and have been learning the ropes, piggy backing your system. In your book you mention your preference for names and aliases. There you seem yet to have seen any place for the square bracket wikilinks. There you seem to indicate item links (x-devonthink-item://… urls) as the means of preserving more meaningful (important) links. Here you seem to be replacing this role of item links with the double bracketed wikilinks (those compatible with Obsidian). Is that so? Experimenting on my own I notice that although item links are preserved as live links in Obsidian, they are not rendered as connections in the graph. The Obsidian graph shows exclusively what are double-bracket links. Now that there is no longer any way to search specifically for incoming item links in DTP (the script from you book is no longer valid) and double bracketed wikilinks become more universal, perhaps item links are less relevant now? In the example note here, you reserve greater meaningfulness to series-sequence links (the ones up top in the double-brackets). The others are just names and alias wikilinks (besides the TOC links). Is that just the case of this note, or are you following this as a general rule? Perhaps a way not to entirely abandon the security of item links is doubling up the links for the sequential-series notes. I.e., to use double bracket wikilinks in the text of the note and to place the x-devonthink-item://… urls in the slots for next/previous note created in the custom meta-data. That way the note plays well with Obsidian and we keep the sequential-series links locked down with item links too…?
Hey Kevin,
I think you have the gist of it, I’m using double brackets for previous and next notes, as well as “See Also [[xxxx]]” type comments. Only rarely am I using Item links. Item links are still useful if you want to keep those connections regardless of name change in the linked to note. Doubling up is not a bad idea, but I prefer to avoid double entry when I can.
Thanks again Kourosh! Helpful to hear that you don’t think doubling up very necessary, reserving item links only for special cases. And good that you mentioned “See Also”, as it wasn’t in the picture above it didn’t come to mind, but I would have been curious to know how you treat them. I was wondering what you think to be the best practice regarding index cards? I suppose all of the links in the index card would be with the double-brackets, following the logic as I understand it. From reading your book I was left wondering a bit more about index cards. You mentioned having only 10 or something like that. You also mentioned cards that work as sort of Table of Contents for a group of cards. I was wondering if these aren’t basically a sort of (intermediary) index card? If this is so, what do you think would serve as a good criterion for distinguishing first tier Index cards form certain intermediary table of contents (index cards)? I guess simply the fact that it is the end of the line, not referring back to any other umbrella card… Thanks again!
Actually the more I reflect on index notes and play around, the less I think I understand them. Is the Tools and Technology note (p. 291) really a typical example of an index card? If not, I would love to see an example. I would have thought that it would carry a listing of references to major links branching off from it? Relating it to the Obsidian graph, I suppose the index cards would correspond to the most prominent nexus hubs seen there – those notes which (directly or indirectly) are linked to a greater quantity of notes…? Sorry to bombard you with questions. Thanks!
Index cards, as far as I’ve developed them, are probably quite useful when made as a table of contents. But sometimes, I haven’t done that. I guess I tend to think of them as the analog of a folder in which everything about it would go. But because we are working with interrelated and interconnected notes, they act more as a source of a river, if I can invoke that analogy?
Hi Kourosh. You initially created the notes on Obsidian then use DEVONthink to “index files & folders” of Obsidian folder?
Hi Jack,
No, I generally feel more at home with and use DEVONthink. I connect with Obsidian to see what else is possible with that program.
Hi Kourosh,
Apologies in advanced asking newbie questions. How do you index files & folders if created notes on DEVONthink? Files are stored in dtBase database. You’ve mentioned as well using Dropbox but DEVONthink doesn’t allow creation of DB in cloud.
Figured it out. Create a folder in dropbox – index file & folder of newly created dropbox folder in DEVONthink – create new notes on DEVONthink – open dropbox folder as vault in obsidian.
@Kourosh. Is this the correct process? Nothing in your post on actual process
Good article.
Obsidian now has a ‘Copy obsidian url’ for each note. So you can add it into the file as a markdown link which opens it up in obsidian when clicked on in DT preview or elsewhere on your system.
link to file
Hey Brad,
That’s awesome! Thanks for noting that. It looks like it also works with Hook. I can see it as being really useful.
Cheers,
– Kourosh
I prefer the Hook method as I don’t like to put the messy looking link into my notes. Hooking them is much more elegant.
Good write up. Unfortunately new DEVONthink 3.6 native links are not compatible in Obsidian in that Obsidian doesn’t show DEVONthink links in graph. Thus making it less sense now to use both DEVONthink and Obisian if the former is primary app to create notes and links.Correct me if wrong.
Hi James,
The Item links for DEVONthink have only worked within DEVONthink. However, the double bracket links do. I tend to use a combination of Names and Aliases, Bracket Links, and Item Links when working on my notes. I’ll set Bracket Linked items, at the bottom of my note, in a list, referring to the links I may have made using other methods in the body of the text. That way, they link just fine in Obsidian in those times I use it.
Good tip on combination of usages. DEVONthink is my main application but like Obsidian’s markdown editor, layout and graphs. Almost 90% of work done on DEVONthink though hate their editor for markdown usage.